🕯️ Traditions What happen after death?

[mbb144]

Wala ako sinabi na sinabi mong fanatic ako. Kaya nga FYI.

Saan.dyan ang angry statement ko? Hindi natin kailangan maging self righteous un lang.
Bro, you can not deny you are attacking others' beliefs. Entitled ka nga naman, but why need to deny and so defensive? You are telling lies and these lies is not only your whole responsibility but you help keep on spreading lies regarding Jesus, soul and ressurection. In your point of view, i am incorrect but that does not mean when to my religious and logical understanding, your lying is personal. Again, JW is a main influence sa thoughts mo about the doctrines you attack. Can not be denied. I have knowledge of this sect and its teachings most are debunked.

Regarding Aristotle and Plato, true hindi sila Christian kasi nga nagbuhay sila B.efore C.hrist. sinisiraan itong dalawang great philosopher na kung saan napakalaking tulong ang thoughts nila sa Kristyanismo. Hindi ibig sabihin ay useless sila. It only means the affinity of reasons with christianitykahit pa hindi sila christian. Also, Aristotle and Plato were then battling materialism that was growing in Greek thoughts.

Samantala, i do not care of what Sir Duterte's religion or personal belief in God. If he is a theologian, he is confused. I admire him as a president that is what he really do best. I like him, his being president.

Aristotle and Plato were then battling materialism that was growing in Greek thoughts. Kung saan ng galing ang greek mythology. As what I have said, you have no right to say na lies ang belief ng iba. Sino ba ang self-righteous sa atin? I only speak kung ano ang pinaniwalaan ko, from all the religions, na try ko, that is my evaluation, by researching, history, the bible and using logic.

FYI, Jesus never mentioned Aristotle and Plato. Ang ibig mong sabihin na ang Christian doctrine mo ay may halong greek teachings? Even the Pharisees teach the same teachings as Plato and Aristotle.

Regarding Aristotle and Plato, true hindi sila Christian kasi nga nagbuhay sila B.efore C.hrist. sinisiraan itong dalawang great philosopher na kung saan napakalaking tulong ang thoughts nila sa Kristyanismo.

Paano naging malaki ang tulong ng mga tao na hindi kristiyano sa kristiyanismo? It is very clear hell and immortal soul are teachings before Christ.

Ito nalang bro, I respect your belief, don't force anyone to believe what you believe. Mas lalo na wag mong sabihin sa iba na lies ang pinaniniwalaan nila. Ikaw ang naging self-righteous niyan.

I also admire Aristotle and Plato in terms of philosophy but to influence religion that is another thing.

I believe in GOD and his Son Jesus Christ.
I don't believe in hell.
I don't believe in immortal soul.

May problema ba diyan? Maraming tao na mayroong pareho sa paniniwala ko, ganon din sa iyo. So respect, nlang bro.

Paano naging parusa ang kamatayan kung mabubuhay ka naman pala, right then and then, after your death. Even Lazarus did not mention anything, if totoong pumalangit siya sana sinabi niya that he was there, somewhere else while he is dead, that should be credible. Pero wala.
What is the use of resurrection kung buhay ka naman pala tapos mong mamatay.
Noong baha (noeh's time), God is remorseful about what happened. Hindi na siya mag papabaha dahil naawa siya sa mga tao. Tapos, ngayun may literal siya na lake of fire? Sa old testament mababasa natin na galit ang Dios sa mga Canaanites dahil sinusunog nila ang mga kabataan nila bilang sacrifice sa kanilang dios, tapos ang DIOS naman pala ang mangsusunog ng tao forever?

Rev. 20 :14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire
Kung literal ang lake of Fire, kaya niyang sunogin ang death? Mahahawakan ba ang Death at matatapon?

Therefore, I conclude that there is no hell and immortal soul. Our God is a God of living souls, that is why there is a resurrection. Take note, I am using the pronoun I. So it is my own belief and what I choose to believe.

Have a good day!

 

[bandwagon]

mbb144, post: 9603287, member: 173381"]
As what I have said, you have no right to say na lies ang belief ng iba. Sino ba ang self-righteous sa atin? I only speak kung ano ang pinaniwalaan ko, from all the religions, na try ko, that is my evaluation, by researching, history, the bible and using logic.

ano nga ba ang masama kung sinabi ko na lies ung pinapalaganap mo na kontra-doktrina sa Kristyanismo? para sa akin ay lies dahil they are biblical misconceptions. what you only need is to show that these are not lies. is it immoral or unethical sa part ko kung sinabi ko na lies? ung notion mo about God, Jesus, soul and resurrection ay hindi original na sa iyo. currently, ang main sect na nagpapalaganap nyan ay ang Jehovah's Witnesses. Why dont we google para malaman pa natin further and how these lies are being debunked by real Christians?

another question is..how broad, deep and far we research and evaluate history and use logic and science as Christianity and the Bible is concerned?



FYI, Jesus never mentioned Aristotle and Plato. Ang ibig mong sabihin na ang Christian doctrine mo ay may halong greek teachings? Even the Pharisees teach the same teachings as Plato and Aristotle.
Paano naging malaki ang tulong ng mga tao na hindi kristiyano sa kristiyanismo?


plato and aristotle helped in the philosophical foundation of Christianity. We Christians owe from Plato in being logical and philosophical on the Ideals?Spiritual or Doctrine of Forms while Aristotle pave the way for the formal deductive reasoning in which this kind of reasoning(ex. syllogism) is very essential in Christian thoughts or philosophy. also, please google on what are the very important contributions of Aristotle and Plato on to the foundation of Western philosophy, thoughts, and culture. These two thinkers even if it preceded CHristianity or Jesus, and may have been gifted by God with such intellect so rich and diverse that later the logical, philosophical and scientific foundation of Christianity in part is established.

maging klaro tayo ha. a christian needs logic and science. itong logic at science na pinag uusapan natin nagkaroon ng bedrock foundation sa Greek thoughts, sa mga panahon nila socrates, plato, aristotle and other greek thinkers. ung Christian fundamental doctrines syempre walang halong Greek philosophy. only that we need logic and science to establish the truth of these fundamental doctrines against the pagans, atheists or unbelievers. gets po ba natin? sa tingin natin kapag walang logical o scientific foundation ang paniniwala natin makukuimbinsi ba natin ang mga pagano o atheists? utang natin sa mga pilosopng griyego ang istilo ng pakikipag talastasan using logic and science. Hindi porke ay nauna sila sa pagdating ng Kristyanidad ay wala na sila kontribusyoon sa pagkabuo ng over-all theology ng Christianity. maliban dyan maaaring God gifted them with such intellect in anticipation of Christianity.




It is very clear hell and immortal soul are teachings before Christ.

what if the notion or idea of hell and immortal ay mayroon na bago na establish ang Christianity? it ony shows the affinity of humankind's knowledge and longing for the after life. do you think God is sleeping and not operating into the mind of human before Christianity? would God deny such knowledge even sa mga kauna unahang tao o civilizations before Christ? the bible speaks much of hell and immortality of the soul. ung idea mo ng hell na saiyo yan. it is your responsibility to understand hell not mine. only that you can not deny that hell exists which the bible says. huwag mo lahatin ang Kristyano na pare parehas ang idea o kaalaman sa hell. there is a hell. but what is this hell is the question you alone can answer. i am not your 'lolo' to tell you that hell is a literal eternal torment in a pit of fire.



Ito nalang bro, I respect your belief, don't force anyone to believe what you believe. Mas lalo na wag mong sabihin sa iba na lies ang pinaniniwalaan nila. Ikaw ang naging self-righteous niyan.

again, they are lies because they are biblical misconceptions. nasa iyo lang kung paano mo i absorb ung term na LIES. dapat expect mo na pwede ako mag react sa kung anuman ang pinagsasabi mo dito.

am i coercing you?

do you know what self-righteous means in context to this thread?

as you said..let the readers judge.

I also admire Aristotle and Plato in terms of philosophy but to influence religion that is another thing.

of course so do i admire these two towering intellects and how they helped me into being more logical to defend the Christian faith.

I believe in GOD and his Son Jesus Christ.
I don't believe in hell.
I don't believe in immortal soul.

that is your belief and can not be taken from you.i dare not

May problema ba diyan? Maraming tao na mayroong pareho sa paniniwala ko, ganon din sa iyo. So respect, nlang bro.

depende. kapag you are exposing misconceptions and trying to undermine Christianity, a kind of me will react.
iba iba naman ang gamit sa salitang respect. in context sa forum na ito, what is the meaning of respect when your belief is being questioned? well, respect to me in this sense then is that to avoid personal insults or foul language.



Paano naging parusa ang kamatayan kung mabubuhay ka naman pala, right then and then, after your death. Even Lazarus did not mention anything, if totoong pumalangit siya sana sinabi niya that he was there, somewhere else while he is dead, that should be credible. Pero wala.


parusa ang kamatayan in the sense that to either the cessation of our body function in this earth to enjoy physical pleasure or for God to stop you into doing further evil in this earthly realm.

paano nga ba ma-i-demonstrate ni God sa bilang katawang tao ang parusa na nagawang kasalanan dito sa mundo?hindi naman sinabi ni God na ung spirit o kaluluwa mo mamatay.
God is speaking in human language. kasi ang reference natin ay the living world not the reality beyond this realm. sana kaunting imahinasyon tayo.
If the bible is silent regarding sa condition ni lazarus nung nasa afterlife siya, means the soul is non existent ba? kailangan gamitin natin ang deductive reasoning natin sa mga bible verses na nagkakalat dyan tungkol sa mga kalagayan ng mga pumanaw. kung isa isahin na isulat ang mga nangyari o experiences ng mga karakter sa bible, ilang terabyte ba ang kailangan para lang maisulat?

use our imagination.

What is the use of resurrection kung buhay ka naman pala tapos mong mamatay.

sinagot ko na ito sa kabilang thread. God is using resurrection to demonstrate His power over death.

walang kontradiksyon yan sa perpetuation ng soul. God is dealing with us in a way we as human can grasp His power and what He can do even in death.


Noong baha (noeh's time), God is remorseful about what happened. Hindi na siya mag papabaha dahil naawa siya sa mga tao. Tapos, ngayun may literal siya na lake of fire? Sa old testament mababasa natin na galit ang Dios sa mga Canaanites dahil sinusunog nila ang mga kabataan nila bilang sacrifice sa kanilang dios, tapos ang DIOS naman pala ang mangsusunog ng tao forever?


I told you huwag mo lahatin ang Kristyano. what do you understand about the lake of fire? i am a christian however, i am not bothered wheter the lake of fire exists literally or spiritually. sabi ng Bible, responsibilidad mo ang sarili mo. kapag dumating ung time na humarap ka sa Dios, alam mo na. ung mga pumanaw na tingin mo gumawa ng mabuti at masama dito sa mundo, only God knows sa kanilang ultimate destiny. open your mind, Does God really burn the souls? may biblical proof ba? o masyado ka lang mapusok o galit sa Simbahan. huwag lahatin. it is case to case basis. isolated cases do not make Christianity false.



Rev. 20 :14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire
Kung literal ang lake of Fire, kaya niyang sunogin ang death? Mahahawakan ba ang Death at matatapon?

ung sagot ay nasa tanong mo din. kung i literal mo ang biblical passage na yan ay the problem is in you. use your heart and imagination. be responsible to yourself in answering some biblical passages. that is a one meaning of life. to use our heart and mind into understanding reality not to rely on others and also please let us not use the failures or weakness of others to judge a belief in whole.

Therefore, I conclude that there is no hell and immortal soul.

therefore YOU conclude.


Our God is a God of living souls..

living souls, souls, living = same. just a verbiage.



that is why there is a resurrection.

there is indeed. the bible attests to that. it is God's demonstration of power over death.


Take note, I am using the pronoun I. So it is my own belief and what I choose to believe.

i didnt fail to see that since the first time a reacted to your post.

Have a good day

same here.

 

[Queen Bee]

After we die? We become objects. No life.

 

[bandwagon]

After we die? We become objects. No life.

...but how do we know if your statement above is the ultimate truth?

 

[Queen Bee]

...but how do we know if your statement above is the ultimate truth?

Because it makes more sense than believing that we'll go somewhere else after we die. Both the heart and the brain are what keeps us alive. As soon as they stop working, the body itself will follow. It's what I believe and learned, I meant no offense to the others..

 

[mbb144]

Because it makes more sense than believing that we'll go somewhere else after we die. Both the heart and the brain are what keeps us alive. As soon as they stop working, the body itself will follow. It's what I believe and learned, I meant no offense to the others..

That's correct. A very good observation. Our five senses depends on our brain.

 

[Queen Bee]

That's correct. A very good observation. Our five senses depends on our brain.

Thanks! And that's it for my opinion. I am an atheist but I do respect others' beliefs. I don't have to emphasize my opinion just for me to be criticized, you know.

 

[bandwagon]

Because it makes more sense than believing that we'll go somewhere else after we die. Both the heart and the brain are what keeps us alive. As soon as they stop working, the body itself will follow. It's what I believe and learned, I meant no offense to the others..

This is my question..

Have you experienced being dead?
Do you really know the state of being dead?

What you are trying to tell me is the medical condition of the dead. However, you are not really addressing the metaphysical nature of my question. What you saw are other people's dead body but were you inside these people when they die and that there was nothing-ness? Did you experience their death?

 

[bandwagon]

Thanks! And that's it for my opinion. I am an atheist but I do respect others' beliefs. I don't have to emphasize my opinion just for me to be criticized, you know.

You do not need to emphasize anything just to be noticed. Besides, i noticed that the word respect as being used here is abused and being used as a diversionary tactics and excuse. What i know of respect here is...do not insult personally, do not curse or use foul language, and no character assassination.

What's wrong if we question someone's conviction here? What's wrong into arguing for or against a belief?

 

[bandwagon]

That's correct. A very good observation. Our five senses depends on our brain.

Can you show me your scientific analysis, proofs/ findings that our "five" senses depend on our brain?

 

[mbb144]

Thanks! And that's it for my opinion. I am an atheist but I do respect others' beliefs. I don't have to emphasize my opinion just for me to be criticized, you know.

Hehehhhe. There was a time that I almost become an atheist due to these religions. But I still believe in GOD except that hell and immortal soul, which already existed thousands of years ago before Christ. I respect your opinion and belief. And thank you also for respecting others belief.

 

[bandwagon]

Hehehhhe. There was a time that I almost become an atheist due to these religions. But I still believe in GOD except that hell and immortal soul, which already existed thousands of years ago before Christ. I respect your opinion and belief. And thank you also for respecting others belief.

And then what? If you were even a self-confessed atheist now..can you turn the tide of reason for and on your side?

 

[mbb144]

Can you show me your scientific analysis, proofs/ findings that our "five" senses depend on our brain?

Anatomy of the brain

Frontal lobe

The frontal lobe governs our personality, character and behaviour. It is where we control our body movement and how we E×ρréšš ourselves. This part of the brain allows us to speak. It is also where we solve problems and do most of our learning. It allows us to organise and plan.

Occipital Lobe

The occipital lobe receives messages from the eyes and recognises shapes, colours and objects. This bit of the brain allows you to tell the difference between a square and a triangle. It also controls your eye movements.

Parietal lobe


The parietal lobe gives you a sense of 'me'. It figures out the messages you receive from the five senses of sight, touch, smell, hearing and taste. This part of the brain tells you what is part of the body and what is part of the outside world.

Temporal lobe

You have two temporal lobes, one behind each ear. They receive messages from the ears so that you can recognize sound and messages. This part of the brain also recognizes speech and is how you understand what someone says to you. It also helps your sense of smell. Your short term memory is also kept here.

Cerebellum


The cerebellum sits at the back of the brain and controls your sense of balance. This allows you to stand up, walk in a straight line, and know if you are standing up or sitting down.

Brain stem

The brain stem controls your lungs and heart and blood pressure. It sits at the top of the spine and receives messages from the rest of the body. In some ways this is the most important part of the brain because it keeps you alive. Hurting this part of the brain is very serious.

Hay nko Bro, parang ang layo mo na. You mean na ang soul na sabi mo na lalabas kuno sa katawan ng tao ang siyang nag control sa senses natin? If so, ikaw naman ang mag bigay ng proof. Akala ko alam mo ang nephesh at ang psykhe, the hebrew and greek word ng soul, which means the living including the animals.

 

[mbb144]

And then what? If you were even a self-confessed atheist now..can you turn the tide of reason for and on your side?

So, you are assuming na nanalo ka? Come on! We E×ρréššed our opinion and beliefs and it's up for the readers to decide.

 

[mbb144]

This is my question..

Have you experienced being dead?
Do you really know the state of being dead?

What you are trying to tell me is the medical condition of the dead. However, you are not really addressing the metaphysical nature of my question. What you saw are other people's dead body but were you inside these people when they die and that there was nothing-ness? Did you experience their death?

Kung ikaw kaya sumagot sa mga tanong mo. Si lazarus nga wlang nasabi, kung saan siya nanggaling habang patay siya. Ikasi, dead is dead. Kaya dumami atheist eh.

 

[bandwagon]

So, you are assuming na nanalo ka? Come on! We E×ρréššed our opinion and beliefs and it's up for the readers to decide.

Paano mo nalaman na ang nasa isip ko ay manalo? Anong mali nga kung i am E×ρréššing my opinions? Would this even be the necessary topic?sa totoo lang andami kong tanong sa iyo and you keep ignoring. Sa word na "respect" ka napapako. What a mishmash tactic.

 

[bandwagon]

Kung ikaw kaya sumagot sa mga tanong mo. Si lazarus nga wlang nasabi, kung saan siya nanggaling habang patay siya. Ikasi, dead is dead. Kaya dumami atheist eh.

Pinapaikot mo lang ang sinasabi mo. How then do i know if dead is dead? Gamitin mo ang imagimation mo. Kung silent ang bible saan napunta si lazarus, the immortality of the soul is false? Tsk tsk..

Does statistics support your belief? What then even if atheists outnumber the theists, atheism is the default truth?

 

[bandwagon]

Anatomy of the brain

Frontal lobe

The frontal lobe governs our personality, character and behaviour. It is where we control our body movement and how we E×ρréšš ourselves. This part of the brain allows us to speak. It is also where we solve problems and do most of our learning. It allows us to organise and plan.

Occipital Lobe

The occipital lobe receives messages from the eyes and recognises shapes, colours and objects. This bit of the brain allows you to tell the difference between a square and a trïânglê. It also controls your eye movements.

Parietal lobe


The parietal lobe gives you a sense of 'me'. It figures out the messages you receive from the five senses of sight, touch, smell, hearing and taste. This part of the brain tells you what is part of the body and what is part of the outside world.

Temporal lobe

You have two temporal lobes, one behind each ear. They receive messages from the ears so that you can recognize sound and messages. This part of the brain also recognizes speech and is how you understand what someone says to you. It also helps your sense of smell. Your short term memory is also kept here.

Cerebellum


The cerebellum sits at the back of the brain and controls your sense of balance. This allows you to stand up, walk in a straight line, and know if you are standing up or sitting down.

Brain stem

The brain stem controls your lungs and heart and blood pressure. It sits at the top of the spine and receives messages from the rest of the body. In some ways this is the most important part of the brain because it keeps you alive. Hurting this part of the brain is very serious.

Hay nko Bro, parang ang layo mo na. You mean na ang soul na sabi mo na lalabas kuno sa katawan ng tao ang siyang nag control sa senses natin? If so, ikaw naman ang mag bigay ng proof. Akala ko alam mo ang nephesh at ang psykhe, the hebrew and greek word ng soul, which means the living including the animals.

Malayo ako o ikaw ang nag iba.ng usapan?
Heto ang tanong ko sa iyo ha base sa quote mo about sa brain...

Where did the brain gets its power for the senses to operate?

 

[mbb144]

Paano mo nalaman na ang nasa isip ko ay manalo? Anong mali nga kung i am E×ρréššing my opinions? Would this even be the necessary topic?sa totoo lang andami kong tanong sa iyo and you keep ignoring. Sa word na "respect" ka napapako. What a mishmash tactic.

Ako ba ang d sumagot o ikaw? D mo nga masagot ng maayos about kay lazaro na siyang napatay at nabuhay. Pero walang sinabi kung pumunta siya sa langit o sa impyerno o saan mang planeta. Sa revelation na ang hell at ang Death itatapon sa lake of fire. Ano ang Death mahahawakan para matapon mo sa lake of fire? Ang hell kung ano man ang interpretasyon mo diyan, mahahawakan ba yan at matatapon?

What is the use of Death as punishment kung mabubuhay ka lang din man right then and then?
What is the use of resurrection kung buhay ka naman pala sa langit?

Pinapaikot mo lang ang sinasabi mo. How then do i know if dead is dead? Gamitin mo ang imagimation mo. Kung silent ang bible saan napunta si lazarus, the immortality of the soul is false? Tsk tsk..

Does statistics support your belief? What then even if atheists outnumber the theists, atheism is the default truth?

Did I talk about numbers? Layo ah! Bro, if indeed na may napuntahan si Lazarus, he will be very happy to tell his experience, sa kanyang kapatid at kay Jesus. ito example lang: "Jesus ang ganda pala sa langit at ang bait nga pala ng Dios". Martha, Maria, grabeh pagkamatay ko, nakita ko kayong umiyak, lumapit ako sa inyo pero di nio na ako maririnig. At bigla may anghel na dumating at dinala ako papuntang langit. Grabeh, ang layo pero ang bilis naming narating ang langit. Sobrang bilis ng lipad namin. Ang ganda pala ng mundo kung sa ibabaw ka naka tingin."
Bro, normal sa tao na mag share ng kanyang experience lalo na't first experience.

 

[mbb144]

Paano mo nalaman na ang nasa isip ko ay manalo? Anong mali nga kung i am E×ρréššing my opinions? Would this even be the necessary topic?sa totoo lang andami kong tanong sa iyo and you keep ignoring. Sa word na "respect" ka napapako. What a mishmash tactic.

Ako ba ang d sumagot o ikaw? D mo nga masagot ng maayos about kay lazaro na siyang napatay at nabuhay. Pero walang sinabi kung pumunta siya sa langit o sa impyerno o saan mang planeta. Sa revelation na ang hell at ang Death itatapon sa lake of fire. Ano ang Death mahahawakan para matapon mo sa lake of fire? Ang hell kung ano man ang interpretasyon mo diyan, mahahawakan ba yan at matatapon?

What is the use of Death as punishment kung mabubuhay ka lang din man right then and then?
What is the use of resurrection kung buhay ka naman pala sa langit?