🕯️ Traditions There is no free-will ayon sa isang psychologist

[Kaplok Kaplok]

kahit walang experience bossing we are still in control of our choices, kahit na out of curiosity lang we are still deliberately choosing, yung point ng "control" is the fact na meron kang options na pinagpili-an and you deliberately choose one

How do you know they are deliberate? Kasi it will always be a function of your experience kung ano magiging decision mo ngayon. Of course there will be an illusion to us na yung mga decision na yun ay according sa will ntin. Pero based sa mga experience natin, predestined na ung mga biases at tendency natin into a knowable future, if it is at all possible to measure and document all these relevant events na makakaapekto sa decision natin.

Think about how data can predict our market choices.

 

[plhbg1]

How do you know they are deliberate? Kasi it will always be a function of your experience kung ano magiging decision mo ngayon. Of course there will be an illusion to us na yung mga decision na yun ay according sa will ntin. Pero based sa mga experience natin, predestined na ung mga biases at tendency natin into a knowable future, if it is at all possible to measure and document all these relevant events na makakaapekto sa decision natin.

Think about how data can predict our market choices.

you can actually choose one for now and choose the other one later bossing, yan pa lang is enough to see that we are in control, i can even pretend that i choose an option but actually choosing the other, we can lie, we can pretend, we can do as we wish

 

[PHC-Sakura]

Ano daw? Haha

 

[hardcorepoetry]

Sa North Korea lang walang Freewill

 

[Master_Taichi_Quan]

Maybe he was topic about the restriction of freedom of mind. As humans, we are restrict by our morals and laws restricting our "freedom" to anything.

 

[Asherah Goddess]

ang question kasi diyan is how sure are you that all are destiny? baka after all you just attributed lahat sa destiny​

Wala naman poh kasiguraduhan. Ako lang kasi, hindi ako naniniwala sa "free will". Dahil siguro sa napapanood ko at nababasa ko, and mostly sa experience ko din. Kasi, sukat na akalain naman din na kung mapapansin kahit sa near-death experience or ang tao na namatay at nabuhay uli from hospital, sila mismo nagsabi na keyso ang isa sa mga blood-related nila ay alam nila kung kailan sila mamamatay at eksakto pang nangyayari. Marami kasi experience ng near-death experience. Hindi naman magkakaparehas poh. Pagano nga ay nasa tuktok ng bundok at pagkatapos ang hangin raw ay malakas ang dampi sa katawan pagkatapos meron raw yumakap sa kanya. Nagising na lang siya na binubuhay siya ng asawa niya at ang asawa pa niya nagsabi na ang heartbeat raw niya ay nag stop. Talaga nagstop. Eh hindi naman niya alam na wala na pala siya life.​

 

[plhbg1]

Wala naman poh kasiguraduhan.​

yan pa lang is enough to debunk the destiny idea, it strongly suggests that anything can happen at walang sure ball na pre-destined events

Ako lang kasi, hindi ako naniniwala sa "free will". Dahil siguro sa napapanood ko at nababasa ko, and mostly sa experience ko din. Kasi, sukat na akalain naman din na kung mapapansin kahit sa near-death experience or ang tao na namatay at nabuhay uli from hospital, sila mismo nagsabi na keyso ang isa sa mga blood-related nila ay alam nila kung kailan sila mamamatay at eksakto pang nangyayari. Marami kasi experience ng near-death experience. Hindi naman magkakaparehas poh. Pagano nga ay nasa tuktok ng bundok at pagkatapos ang hangin raw ay malakas ang dampi sa katawan pagkatapos meron raw yumakap sa kanya. Nagising na lang siya na binubuhay siya ng asawa niya at ang asawa pa niya nagsabi na ang heartbeat raw niya ay nag stop. Talaga nagstop. Eh hindi naman niya alam na wala na pala siya life.​

eto yung previous na sinabi mo in which nag reply ako that individual experience is a strong indicator of belief, beliefs will always be grounded on individual experience instead of external evidences to which everyone can verify, even sa korte mahina yang testimonies if ginamit as evidence, mas malakas pa din ang external evidences

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

you can actually choose one for now and choose the other one later bossing, yan pa lang is enough to see that we are in control, i can even pretend that i choose an option but actually choosing the other, we can lie, we can pretend, we can do as we wish

Pero there must be a reason why you chose the other before you did. Past experience padin yun. Kahit ang reason mo ay to reinforse the illusion you have free will, yung nagbigay ng motivation sayo na gawin mo ay deterministic.

Maybe he was topic about the restriction of freedom of mind. As humans, we are restrict by our morals and laws restricting our "freedom" to ananything.

Yan nmn mismo tinutukoy. May ibang comment dito na tinitignan ito sa context ng religion at politics which is sad

 

[plhbg1]

Pero there must be a reason why you chose the other before you did. Past experience padin yun. Kahit ang reason mo ay to reinforse the illusion you have free will, yung nagbigay ng motivation sayo na gawin mo ay deterministic.

tama ka naman boss that experience can become basis for making choices and experienced persons are making high quality decisions in general, pero i don't think experience automatically determines the choices, experience isn't automatically the best teacher, the person still needs to make sense of that particular experience, yung iba may experience but deliberately ignores the lesson, unpredictable ang thinking process bossing, though behaviorist psychologists see humans in a mechanistic way as if they can just be easily mind conditioned

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

tama ka naman boss that experience can become basis for making choices and experienced persons are making high quality decisions in general, pero i don't think experience automatically determines the choices, experience isn't automatically the best teacher, the person still needs to make sense of that particular experience, yung iba may experience but deliberately ignores the lesson, unpredictable ang thinking process bossing, though behaviorist psychologists see humans in a mechanistic way as if they can just be easily mind conditioned

Maybe unpredictable lang dahil hindi lahat ng bagay na makakaapekto sa isip ng tao ay pwede natin makita. Pero wether a person uses experience as a lesson, nakasalalay padin yan sa karanasan ng tao overall, like upbringing, traumas, etc.
Pero, hypothetically speaking, what if may device na nakakasukat ng lahat ng yan - every nuances ng experience ng tao, their postion in space and time enough to predict future events, are humans capable of avoiding their predicted destiny? We really do not know.

 

[plhbg1]

Maybe unpredictable lang dahil hindi lahat ng bagay na makakaapekto sa isip ng tao ay pwede natin makita.

we can provide possible reason for unpredictability, but it still doesn't change fact that it's unpredictable bossing

Pero wether a person uses experience as a lesson, nakasalalay padin yan sa karanasan ng tao overall, like upbringing, traumas, etc.

not all choices are determined by experience bossing, some choices are made out of guessing or even plain curiosity

Pero, hypothetically speaking, what if may device na nakakasukat ng lahat ng yan - every nuances ng experience ng tao, their postion in space and time enough to predict future events, are humans capable of avoiding their predicted destiny? We really do not know.

the possibility of having this is already part of uncertainty bossing, as i've said, not all choices are determined by experience

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

we can provide possible reason for unpredictability, but it still doesn't change fact that it's unpredictable bossing

not all choices are determined by experience bossing, some choices are made out of guessing or even plain curiosity

the possibility of having this is already part of uncertainty bossing, as i've said, not all choices are determined by experience

How can u say na ung plain curiosity or guess ay undeterminable? Kung alam mo lhat ng nuances ng mga tao, i think you will be able to predict their guess or how they would explore thier curiosity.

 

[plhbg1]

How can u say na ung plain curiosity or guess ay undeterminable? Kung alam mo lhat ng nuances ng mga tao, i think you will be able to predict their guess or how they would explore thier curiosity.

ikaw na mismo nagsabi bossing about the naunce characteristics of humans, pag nuance kasi it means it varies from person to person and there is no universally accepted pattern kasi nga nuance yan, pa-iba iba yan across the population, yung magagawa mo lang diyan is attribute all these uniqueness to an imaginary plan, kumbaga you just think about those plans assuming they exist, but until then, the current understanding available to humans is only up to uncertainty and those deterministic theories are confined to individual testimonies in which none of us can independently verify

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

ikaw na mismo nagsabi bossing about the naunce characteristics of humans, pag nuance kasi it means it varies from person to person and there is no universally accepted pattern kasi nga nuance yan, pa-iba iba yan across the population, yung magagawa mo lang diyan is attribute all these uniqueness to an imaginary plan, kumbaga you just think about those plans assuming they exist, but until then, the current understanding available to humans is only up to uncertainty and those deterministic theories are confined to individual testimonies in which none of us can independently verify

Hindi ko makita na ang uniqueness ng bawat isa at inexistence of "plan" necessarily mean we have free will. However you put it, we are always only reacting to positive or negative reinforcement based on our individual past. We only differ on how we view these stimulus and the degree of how much we react to them, making us unique, pero at the end of the day, we are like machines following the dictates of what we consider rewards and punishments of the environment.

 

[Asherah Goddess]

Alam niyo ba, nanaginip ako ng zombie. Eh ayoko ng zombie. Talaga ayoko. Siyempre nakokontrol ko ang panaginip ko. Sa sobrang nakakatakot ng panaginip , ang dami kong options sa panaginip ko pero unfair siya dahil sa lahat ng options ko , wala na magandang resulta. Sa dreams ko kasi , sa sobrang fear ko , mas gusto ko pa magtago sa ilalim ng bed pagkatapos huwag na lumabas pero matatagpuan pa rin ako ng zombie. Pagkatapos kapag sasakay ako ng skyrocket ship, lalabas sa earth , andoon ang alien na nangangain ng tao, pagkatapos kapag lilipat sa other planet , magugunaw raw ng mundo after how many days.... unfair naman nito. Parang alam niyo iyon? Wala na akong options dahil puros pangit ang lahat ng resulta na wala na ako pagpipilian....... grabi.... nakakabangungot. Whew... wala lang. Na open up ko lang dahil naalala ko ang predestined.

Yung dreams na naghalo-halo na hindi maintindihan.​

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Alam niyo ba, nanaginip ako ng zombie. Eh ayoko ng zombie. Talaga ayoko. Siyempre nakokontrol ko ang panaginip ko. Sa sobrang nakakatakot ng panaginip , ang dami kong options sa panaginip ko pero unfair siya dahil sa lahat ng options ko , wala na magandang resulta. Sa dreams ko kasi , sa sobrang fear ko , mas gusto ko pa magtago sa ilalim ng bed pagkatapos huwag na lumabas pero matatagpuan pa rin ako ng zombie. Pagkatapos kapag sasakay ako ng skyrocket ship, lalabas sa earth , andoon ang alien na nangangain ng tao, pagkatapos kapag lilipat sa other planet , magugunaw raw ng mundo after how many days.... unfair naman nito. Parang alam niyo iyon? Wala na akong options dahil puros pangit ang lahat ng resulta na wala na ako pagpipilian....... grabi.... nakakabangungot. Whew... wala lang. Na open up ko lang dahil naalala ko ang predestined.

Yung dreams na naghalo-halo na hindi maintindihan.​

Ang cute ng kwento mo haha.

 

[Asherah Goddess]

Ang cute ng kwento mo haha.

Hahaha... eh kasi.... parang meron akong ini escape parang hindi maka escape.... terror pa rin ang resulta....

 

[plhbg1]

Hindi ko makita na ang uniqueness ng bawat isa at inexistence of "plan" necessarily mean we have free will.

the otherwise also won't tell we have no free will since things usually won't go as planned in reality

However you put it, we are always only reacting to positive or negative reinforcement based on our individual past. We only differ on how we view these stimulus and the degree of how much we react to them, making us unique, pero at the end of the day, we are like machines following the dictates of what we consider rewards and punishments of the environment.

actually, what is negative for you might be positive for me, and vice versa, you cannot generalize that we have the same response to every stimulus, hindi tayo machines, we have different interpretations of things, there is no fixed response to a single stimulus

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

the otherwise also won't tell we have no free will since things usually won't go as planned in reality

actually, what is negative for you might be positive for me, and vice versa, you cannot generalize that we have the same response to every stimulus, hindi tayo machines, we have different interpretations of things, there is no fixed response to a single stimulus

Imagine this.. a person is known to react to a certain stimulus at a given predisposition due to environment and mental state. Does is matter kung iba ang reaction nya sa ibang tao? All that matters is if this person consistently reacts in a certain way to say that his behavior is predetermined. The other person is also predetermined, just not operating in the same rule as the first person.

Based sa logic mo, pag naghulog ka ng dalawang bola na magkaibang material gawa, at nagresulta magkaibang bounce pattern, ibig sabihin may free-will ang bola.

 

[Master_Taichi_Quan]

Imagine this.. a person is known to react to a certain stimulus at a given predisposition due to environment and mental state. Does is matter kung iba ang reaction nya sa ibang tao? All that matters is if this person consistently reacts in a certain way to say that his behavior is predetermined. The other person is also predetermined, just not operating in the same rule as the first person.

Based sa logic mo, pag naghulog ka ng dalawang bola na magkaibang material gawa, at nagresulta magkaibang bounce pattern, ibig sabihin may free-will ang bola.

A material cant have a will, it depends on logical explanation of matters why objects move in certain direction. While human being are logical beings or organism with "free-will" with their conciousness, either to act logically or with instinct. For example, a caveman, wala educational background ang caveman, pero meron syang instinct to protect himself from danger and to survive base on his experience or his tribe collective experiences. Meron rin sya curiosity to explore anything he don't understand. Its called technical exploration.

We have wisdom of experience from our ancestors. It is our "free-will" to learn, adapt and improve their method.
Free-will is a consciousness where you are liberated from thinking inside the box. You can also call this outside paradox.