🕯️ Traditions Tanong na wala pang nakasagot tungkol sa bibliya

[Gentleman007]

[XX='Ace106, c: 750094, m: 1382361'][/XX] bro hiligaynon ka pala? Haha

 

[S I R J]

[XX='PHC-Subaru, c: 750123, m: 1553112'][/XX] Partly Yes, lodi. actually same tayo ng logic. Pero yung argument ng theoritical journal ay God himself cannot afford to die so if Jesus died then he is not God (Mboti 2017).

 

[Gentleman007]

Nung magrebelde si satanas na diablo sa Diyos.

 

[Ace106]

Sa imperfect? Kay cain pero sa pinakauna kahit perfect? Si adan at eva ang first sin nang human

 

[Ace106]

Anak din tayo nang diyos ang mga anghel anak din nang diyos pero iba ang nilalang sa tunay na Diyos

 

[Gentleman007]

[XX='- srj -, c: 750138, m: 1596530'][/XX] kaya ang tanong nanaman dyan nung namatay si Jesus Christ sino bumuhay sakanya? Walang iba kundi ang kanyang Ama at Diyos nya.

 

[Gentleman007]

Sinabi ni Jesus: “Huwag kang kumapit sa akin dahil hindi pa ako nakaaakyat sa Ama. Pumunta ka sa mga kapatid ko at sabihin mo sa kanila, ‘Aakyat ako sa aking Ama at inyong Ama at sa aking Diyos at inyong Diyos.’
-Juan 20:17

 

[S I R J]

[XX='Ace106, c: 750125, m: 1382361'][/XX] Ayan medyo nag halo na, wait isa isahin natin yung premise
1. Yes sir, Diyos si Jesus
2. Dahil mas mataas ang position niya sa langit or sa all type of angel
If hihimayin natin, your first argument is stating that he is God (and that is a big check) and your second argument is a little bit confusing, dito lodi medyo parang tunog na highest angel na lang siya? (sir correct me if I am wrong ha)

 

[S I R J]

[XX='Gentleman007, c: 750156, m: 631158'][/XX] Yes tama yan sir. Big check yan. pero ang point ng argument ni dununu ay hindi para kwestyunin yung credibility ni Lord na bumuhay, bagkos kung pagiging Diyos ni Jesus.

 

[S I R J]

[XX='Ace106, c: 750146, m: 1382361'][/XX] sir Ace106 naniniwala ka ba sa existence ni Lilith?

 

[Ace106]

Ganito na lang sir diyos si jesus pero di sya ang tunay na diyos o kapantay nang kanyang ama,

Masmataas sya sa lahat nang nilalang, hindi lang sa mga anghel.

 

[pusaneseph]

alin ang tunay na chruch sa biblia?
alin dpat aniba ng na relihyon?

 

[S I R J]

[XX='Ace106, c: 750188, m: 1382361'][/XX] I see.. ayun. ngayon pano naman natin lalabanan yung dununu that if God si Jesus dapat di pwedeng mamatay.

 

[Gentleman007]

[XX='- srj -, c: 750180, m: 1596530'][/XX]

Why is Jesus Called "Mighty God" at Isa. 9:6?​

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." (Isa. 9:6)

Pretty much all Christians accept this son as being the Christ. Some will tell you that since the meaning of this symbolic name includes the words "Mighty God, Eternal Father," then Jesus is the Mighty God and the Eternal Father.​

But there are at least two other ways this personal name has been interpreted by reputable Bible scholars. (1) The titles found within the name (e.g., "Mighty God") are intended in their secondary, subordinate senses. (2) the titles within the name are meant to praise God the Father, not the Messiah.

First, (1) there is the possibility that the words (or titles) found in the literal meaning of the name apply directly to the Messiah all right but in a subordinate sense. In other words, Christ is "a mighty god" in the same sense that God's angels were called "gods" and the judges of Israel were called "gods" by God himself (also by Jesus - John 10:34, 35), and Moses was called "a god" by Jehovah himself. This is the interpretation of Is. 9:6 by the WT Society at this time.

Yes, men and angels were called gods (elohim - Hebrew; theos - Greek) in a proper, but subordinate, sense by Jehovah and his inspired Bible writers. Although they were given this elevated title in a proper sense (not false gods), it was obviously with the clear understanding that it in no way implied a comparison with the Most High, Only True God. (A bank employee calling his boss, the head of the bank, "the president" would certainly not imply an equality of position, power, etc. with "The President" [of the USA].)

The word "god" as understood by those who used that term simply meant a "mighty one" - see Young's Concordance. In fact the word "Mighty" as found at Is. 9:6 (Gibbor in the original Hebrew) is also applied to the angels at Ps. 103:20 (see a modern concordance such as the New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible). It is interesting that the ancient translation of the Old Testament that Jesus frequently quoted, the Septuagint Version, renders Is. 9:6: "and his [the Messiah's] name is called the Angel [aggeloV, messenger] of Great Counsel."

The very early (ca. 160 A.D.) Christian Justin Martyr quoted Is. 9:6 also as "The Angel of mighty counsel" - "Dialogue With Trypho," ch. LXXVI.

So, just as "Lord" was applied to anyone in authority: angels, masters over servants, husbands, etc., so, too, could "god" be applied to anyone (good or bad) who was considered a "mighty person." Of course only one person could be called the "Most High God," or the "Only True God," or the "Almighty God"!

In the same way, "Eternal Father" could mean that the Messiah is one who has been given eternal life and through him God has brought eternal life to many others. (We might make the comparison that the Heavenly Father has brought men to life in this world through their earthly fathers.) This would be intended in a clearly subordinate sense and not to take anything away from the ultimate honor, glory, worship, etc. due the Most High God and Father in heaven - Jehovah.

At any rate, even trinitarians do not confuse the two separate persons of the Father and the Son. They do not say the Son is the Father. They say the Father and the Son are two separate individual persons who are equally "God"!

Therefore, since we obviously cannot take "Eternal Father" in the literal sense to mean that Jesus is the Father, we cannot take the rest of that same name (esp. `Mighty God') in its literal highest sense and say that Jesus is Mighty God, etc., either.

In addition to the distinct possibility of the use of the secondary subordinate meanings of the titles such as "God/god" as explained by Bible language scholars, we can see by the actual renderings of some trinitarian Bible translators at Is. 9:6 that they believe such subordinate meanings were intended by the inspired Bible writer.

Instead of "Mighty God," Dr. James Moffatt translated this part of Is. 9:6 as "a divine hero;" Byington has "Divine Champion;" The New English Bible has "In Battle Godlike;" The Catholic New American Bible (1970 and 1991 revision) renders it "God-Hero;" and the REB says "Mighty Hero." Even that most-respected of Biblical Hebrew language experts, Gesenius, translated it "mighty hero" - p. 45, Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon.

Also, The NIV Study Bible, in a f.n. for Ps 45:6, tells us:

"In this psalm, which praises the king and especially extols his splendor and majesty' (v. 3), it is not unthinkable that he was called god' as a title of honor [cf. Isa 9:6]." (Bracketed information included in original footnote. Emphasis is mine)

In addition, Rotherham has rendered "Eternal Father" as "father of progress," and the New English Bible translates it: "father of a wide realm."

The above-mentioned Bible translations by trinitarian scholars which apply the words in the name at Is. 9:6 in a subordinate sense directly to Jesus clearly show that they do not believe this scripture implies an equality with Jehovah the Father.

........................

And second (2), another way competent Bible scholars have interpreted the meaning of this name is with the understanding that it (as with many, if not most, of the other Israelites' personal names) does not apply directly to the Messiah (as we have already seen with "Elijah," "Abijah," etc.) but is, instead, a statement praising the Father, Jehovah God.

Personal names in the ancient Hebrew and Greek are often somewhat cryptic to us today. The English Bible translator must fill in the missing minor words (especially in names composed of two or more Hebrew words) such as "my," "is," "of," etc. in whatever way he thinks best in order to make sense for us today in English.

For instance, two of the best Bible concordances (Young's and Strong's) and a popular trinitarian Bible dictionary (Today's Dictionary of the Bible) differ greatly on the exact meaning of many Biblical personal names because of those "minor" words which must be added to bring out the intended meaning.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, for example, says the name "Elimelech" (which is literally just "God King") means "God of (the) King." Young's Analytical Concordance says it means "God is King." Today's Dictionary of the Bible says it means " God his king" - p. 206, Bethany House Publ., 1982.

Those missing minor words that the translator must supply at his own discretion can often make a vital difference! - For example, the footnote for Gen. 17:5 in The NIV Study Bible: The name `Abram' "means Exalted Father,' probably in reference to God (i.e., [God is] Exalted Father')."- Brackets in original.

This is why another name the Messiah is to be called by at Jer. 23:6 is rendered, `The LORD [YHWH] IS Our Righteousness' in the following Bibles: RSV; NRSV; NEB; NJB; JPS (Margolis, ed.); Tanakh; Byington; AT; and ASV (footnote). Of course other translations render it more literally by calling the Messiah "The LORD [YHWH] Our Righteousness" to help support a `Jesus is God' doctrine. Some of these (such as the NASB) actually render the very same name at Jer. 33:16 as "The LORD [or Jehovah] Is Our Righteousness"! - [bracketed information is mine].

(Unfortunately for those who wish to use this name at Jer. 23:16 as evidence of Jesus being Jehovah, at Jer. 33:16 it is also given to a city!)

Therefore, the personal name at Is. 9:6 has been honestly translated as: "And his name is called: Wonderful in counsel is God the Mighty, the everlasting Father, the Ruler of peace" - The Holy Scriptures, JPS Version (Margolis, ed.) to show that it is intended to praise the God of the Messiah who performs great things through the Messiah.

Also, An American Translation (by trinitarians Smith and Goodspeed) says:
"Wonderful counselor is God almighty, Father forever, Prince of peace."

Of course it could also be honestly translated: "Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God is the Eternal Father of the Prince of Peace."

And the Tanakh by the JPS, 1985, translates it:

[a]"The Mighty God is planning grace;
The Eternal Father [is] a peaceable ruler."

This latter translation seems particularly appropriate since it is in the form of a parallelism. Not only was the previous symbolic personal name introduced by Isaiah at Is. 8:1 a parallelism ("Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz" means [a]"quick to the plunder; swift to the spoil" - NIV footnote) but the very introduction to this Messianic name at Is. 9:6 is itself a parallelism: [a]"For unto us a child is born; unto us a son is given." It would, therefore, be appropriate to find that this name, too, was in the form of a parallelism as translated by the Tanakh above.

So it is clear, even to a number of trinitarian scholars, that Is. 9:6 does not imply that Jesus is Jehovah God.

 

[S I R J]

Sir Gentleman007 and Ace106 meron bang part sa bible na nagsasabi na at first hindi Siya Diyos, tho Anak Siya ng Diyos, tapos after Niya mamatay tsaka Siya naging Diyos?

 

[S I R J]

[XX='Gentleman007, c: 750202, m: 631158'][/XX] Pag yan naman lodi, ang labas ay bumababa tayo sa katotohanan ng dununu? kasi sabi dun kapag Diyos si Jesus, since God himself cannot afford to die, then it breaks the stupidity principle (Mboti 2017)

 

[Gentleman007]

Anak ng Diyos si Jesus hindi siya kailanman naging almighty God.. malawak kasi ang pwede pag gamitan ng salitang Diyos.. kahit si satanas tinutukoy din ng bible na diyos din.

 

[S I R J]

[XX='Gentleman007, c: 750221, m: 631158'][/XX] Ay really? pati si luci?? gusto ko i-discuss hahahha pero wait balik ko sa argument. hindi rin Niya tinatanong yung truth na anak Siya ng Diyos. Ang point niya ay if Jesus is God, and He died for us then labag na yun sa dununu principle

 

[Gentleman007]

Binuhay-muli ng Diyos si Jesus, at saksi kaming lahat dito.You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now.At dahil itinaas na siya sa kanan ng DiyosYou do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. at tinanggap niya ang banal na espiritu na ipinangako ng Ama,You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. ibinuhos niya iyon sa amin, gaya ng nakikita ninyo at naririnig. You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now.Hindi umakyat si David sa langit, pero siya mismo ang nagsabi, ‘Sinabi ni JehovaYou do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. sa Panginoon ko: “Umupo ka sa kanan ko You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now.hanggang sa ang mga kaaway mo ay gawin kong tuntungan ng mga paa mo.”’You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now.Kaya hindi dapat mag-alinlangan ang buong bayang Israel na si Jesus na ipinako ninyo sa tulosYou do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. ay ginawa ng Diyos na PanginoonYou do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. at Kristo.”
-Gawa 2:32-36

binanggit diyan na nung buhayin ng Diyos si Jesus ay nasa kanan sya ng Diyos kaya maliwanag na hindi nya kapantay ang kanyang ama at hindi sya ang Almighty God

You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now.Kapag napasailalim na niya ang lahat ng bagay, ang Anak ay magpapasailalim din sa Isa na nagbigay sa kaniya ng awtoridad sa lahat ng bagay,You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. para ang Diyos ang maging nag-iisang Tagapamahala ng lahat.You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now.You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now.
-1 Corinto 15:28

sa tekstong ito kung si Jesus ang almighty God bakit pa nya kakailanganin na magpasailalim sa kanyang Diyos at Ama?

 

[S I R J]

[XX='Gentleman007, c: 750251, m: 631158'][/XX] sir Gentleman007 nakukuha ko na yuuunnnggg sagot hahaha palagay ko nandito yun