🕯️ Traditions Where Does Morality Come From?

[jayendecastro]

Your entire being will know, as if you have been in a coma for a prolonged period of time, dreaming within your own small world and suddenly woke up.

Uuhmm…oookaaay??

I understand this feeling.

One thing you should know about people, human brains are not all structured the same. When people are able to form brilliant thoughts(or wild ideas) that contains knowledge from their subconcious, some people are aware that it came from within them, while some people feel like it came from an outside source, usually a divine being. But it could also be percieved as knowledge from ancestor, or their past life depending on the prior belief.

The level of awareness of where it comes from varies widely from person to person. To some, when this awareness is so low, even the concious thought can be percieved as foreign from the self, like observed in schizoprenia or when under the influence of psychedelics. This is the part of the mind esoteric traditions interact with (as well as other religious traditions that kept true to the practice.)

But regardless of what is felt about it, mastering the use of the subconcious mind takes a good amount practice and discipline. It is not done for the experience, but instead for practical application.

So its about feelings and perceptions.. which of course i agree with u na varies widely…and i think that doesnt help the god claim at all

ahaha nice one na-notice mo din ang style

Nalimutan ko kasi sya pala ung sumagot sa isa pang thread about rituals and special group hehe

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

and i think that doesnt help the god claim at all

Yan nga pinupunto ko. Kaya nga atheist ako diba.

 

[jayendecastro]

View attachment 2510928

It can be difficult for those with limited experience to understand new information, as they may have preconceived notions and limited perspective.

The only way to gain understanding is through direct experience with the divine. To effectively communicate to the common man, it may be helpful to use analogies or references that are familiar to the listener, that's why spiritual texts are full of allegories otherwise no communication is possible.

To point the direction is the only help available..

..and we can observe that some entities are in human form because they want to communicate..

The common man might go mad if he sees wings with hundred eyes embedded to it talking to him.

In Luke 9:23, Jesus looks at his disciples and tells them, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

In short, just do it. Talking about it, philosophizing, debating, etc is pointless because we are dealing with a higher realm, as this realm is only a poor copy of the subtleties beyond.

Why do u think na thats the case?? Na may limitations ang common man or may certain pre-requisites pa to gain that ultimate understanding??

 

[foxicle]

Why do u think na thats the case?? Na may limitations ang common man or may certain pre-requisites pa to gain that ultimate understanding??

That's the point why we are here, to learn about ourselves, our inner-selves.

 

[jayendecastro]

That's the point why we are here, to learn about ourselves, our inner-selves.

If thats the point then bakit parang andami pre-requisites to get to that point…

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

That's the point why we are here, to learn about ourselves, our inner-selves.

I dont think this is reasonable.

Lets say, sige may creator. Halimbawa isa kang creator ng isang simulated character in a computer game. Ikaw din ang nag create ng environment na gagalawan nya. (Best way to picture this is simcity or city skyline)

As a creator, will you program this chracter with the main purpose of finding it's inner self? Or even finding you as their creator? I dont think so. The character's purpose is to interact with the environment created for it.
And honestly, if this simulated character starts praising you and trying to find you, the creator, you might think that it's broken.

In some sense, what you said even goes against the principles of this bible verse:

Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Mark 2:27

 

[foxicle]

I dont think this is reasonable.

Lets say, sige may creator. Halimbawa isa kang creator ng isang simulated character in a computer game. Ikaw din ang nag create ng environment na gagalawan nya. (Best way to picture this is simcity or city skyline)

As a creator, will you program this chracter with the main purpose of finding it's inner self? Or even finding you as their creator? I dont think so. The character's purpose is to interact with the environment created for it.
And honestly, if this simulated character starts praising you and trying to find you, the creator, you might think that it's broken.

In some sense, what you said even goes against the principles of this bible verse:

This is how the mind works, its utility is good in the realm of duality.

creator-created
yin-yang
above-below

Only the mind knows separation as if it is separate from the creation, from God.

Only God knows the "reason" for the creation and only the mind has this kind of question.

When you came to a point of total silence, when the mind is nil, you will "know" that there is no such thing as a creator and the created, there is no separation, everything is one since the beginning.

Why do u think na thats the case?? Na may limitations ang common man or may certain pre-requisites pa to gain that ultimate understanding??

Because of the mind, man must learn to discover that he is not mind without destroying it but put it to good use, let this gap increase day by day thru meditation or any other method you prefer or ready for.

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

creator-created
yin-yang
above-below

Mejo sleight of hand isali sa concept of duality ang "creator-created"
Duality is usually harmony of opposites, like:
chaos and order
Creation and destruction
Male and female
Good and evil

but okay.. i dont think you are referring to a creator like the one in garden of eden, or our folk creator bathalang maykapal.
Similar ba yan sa "Supermind" ni Aurobindo?

 

[foxicle]

Mejo sleight of hand isali sa concept of duality ang "creator-created"
Duality is usually harmony of opposites, like:
chaos and order
Creation and destruction
Male and female
Good and evil

but okay.. i dont think you are referring to a creator like the one in garden of eden, or our folk creator bathalang maykapal.
Similar ba yan sa "Supermind" ni Aurobindo?

He is referring to something subtle but not the absolute but it doesn't really matter when you are in the path, you will get to experience all of those, step by step, subtler and subtler. Even those powers exhibited are just symptoms not the goal, so a lot of things will happen but you just move forward.

You will reach that point where you feel you know everything because knowledge will be super fluid but that too is not the end because it may led you astray because you will certainly feel omniscient. Just move forward, all these things are symptoms when you purify yourself.

Meditate everyday and the gap will increase day by day.

 

[Nihilosphy]

Winners dictate what is morality for they write history itself,

those morals in the past we forgot for someone, or some group with a high enough power overwrites laws and morality to become what we know today.

Abraham Lincoln abolish slavery which at that time is normal to them, they view slaves as pets, to order around and feed, even decide their life and deaths which at that time is normalized. Abraham Lincoln has enough power and support to overwrite the said normalized morality.

then back to the present, imagine your pet cat or dog having enough sentience or intelligence to speak for themselves been given laws to protect them. It would be ABSURD in our point of view to enact those laws. However, if a person or group with enough power and influence were to enact the law. The next generation or the generation after that with treat that law as the standard for their morality.

Treat N⁰rth Korea President which enacts laws so controversial and dictatorial in our perspective. On the other hand, the said country's citizen treat that as the standard to live and their moral compass. Their Leader gets to decide which is Morally RIGHT or WRONG.

Remember Da Vinci's Quote 3 :
History is always written by the winners. When two cultures clash, the loser is obliterated, and the winner writes the history books—books which glorify their own cause and disparage the conquered foe.

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Winners dictate what is morality for they write history itself,

those morals in the past we forgot for someone, or some group with a high enough power overwrites laws and morality to become what we know today.

Abraham Lincoln abolish slavery which at that time is normal to them, they view slaves as pets, to order around and feed, even decide their life and deaths which at that time is normalized. Abraham Lincoln has enough power and support to overwrite the said normalized morality.

then back to the present, imagine your pet cat or dog having enough sentience or intelligence to speak for themselves been given laws to protect them. It would be ABSURD in our point of view to enact those laws. However, if a person or group with enough power and influence were to enact the law. The next generation or the generation after that with treat that law as the standard for their morality.

Treat N⁰rth Korea President which enacts laws so controversial and dictatorial in our perspective. On the other hand, the said country's citizen treat that as the standard to live and their moral compass. Their Leader gets to decide which is Morally RIGHT or WRONG.

Remember Da Vinci's Quote 3 :
History is always written by the winners. When two cultures clash, the loser is obliterated, and the winner writes the history books—books which glorify their own cause and disparage the conquered foe.

To elaborate the point further, Genghis Khan, a brutal murderous and destructive conqueror in our view, is seen by his subjects in a high regard worthy of praise like in this song:

 

[Nihilosphy]

He is referring to something subtle but not the absolute but it doesn't really matter when you are in the path, you will get to experience all of those, step by step, subtler and subtler. Even those powers exhibited are just symptoms not the goal, so a lot of things will happen but you just move forward.

You will reach that point where you feel you know everything because knowledge will be super fluid but that too is not the end because it may led you astray because you will certainly feel omniscient. Just move forward, all these things are symptoms when you purify yourself.

Meditate everyday and the gap will increase day by day.

Duality in morality and even morality itself is an illusion others create for themselves and for others.

Seek your path and purpose in life and do it, no matter what happens those who benefit in your path which call you RIGHTEOUS and those who are left behind or trampled will call you VICIOUS.

for “You Either Die A Hero, Or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain” — Harvey Dent in The Dark Knight (2008)

 

[MillennialOhm]

Morality is knowledge.

 

[stellarium]

that is wrong bro, hindi lang ang dna ang basehan ng mga atheists sa source ng morality, kasama dyan ang culture and social conditioning in my opinion iyan ang defining factor kung pano nahuhubog ang mentalidad ng isang individual, how they act and behave morally dahil kung ano man ang natural na naka markang moralidad sa brain ng tao maaring mabago at hubugin ng kultura na kanyang kinalakihan at kinamulatan na kultura.. now siguro ang maibibigay ko isang magandang ilustrasyon since ito yung pinapanuod ko sa iwantfc ngayon though its a work of fiction base ito sa tunay nagaganaap sa mindanao, A Solidier's Heart its a story of a two brothers pinag hiwalay ng magulong kaganapan sa mindanao, by blood and tribal parehas silang Moro, ang isa ay lumaking Muslim rebel, ang isa ay pinalaki ng isang sundalo, lumaking kristyano at sundalo.. At ng magkita sila after ng mahabang panahon ay hindi sila magkasundo sa opinyon, paninindigan, ideolohiya at moralidad, ang moralidad at mga paninindigan kasi nila binago ng lipunan at kultura na kinamulatan nila.

Ang punto ko kaya binigay ko ang example na yan ay: Sang ayon ako bilang agnostic may likas tayo pagkaka kilala ng moralidad na naka ukit sa utak natin kung ano ang tama at mali, it was hard wired our brain and embedded in our dna but in the end ang mag didikta padin ng kung ano ang tama o mali ay naka depende sa kinalakihang kultura, lipunan, kapaligiran, at religion ng isang indibwal-- mga bagay na siyang humuhubog sa kung ano ang magiging opinyon, ideolohiya, pilosopiya, worldview, pulitikal na posisyon at ibang mga bagay na may kinalaman sa pansariling pananaw ng bawal personalidad.

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Sang ayon ako bilang agnostic may likas tayo pagkaka kilala ng moralidad na naka ukit sa utak natin kung ano ang tama at mali, it was hard wired our brain and embedded in our dna but in the end ang mag didikta padin ng kung ano ang tama o mali ay naka depende sa kinalakihang kultura, lipunan, kapaligiran, at religion ng isang indibwal-- mga bagay na siyang humuhubog sa kung ano ang magiging opinyon, ideolohiya, pilosopiya, worldview, pulitikal na posisyon at ibang mga bagay na may kinalaman sa pansariling pananaw ng bawal personalidad.

Pasensya na sa wording kung hindi ganun ka accurate.

Pero nalito ako sa sinabi mo. Kung "a priori" knowledge din ang huhubog, ano pang parte ng moralidad ang masasabi nating hardwired?

Saka prang baliktad din kasi. Ang kultura, lipunan at relihiyon ay produkto ng kung ano na moralidad ang meron ang isang grupo ng mga tao. Nagkataon lng isinilang tayo sa kalagitnaan, pero sa umpisa, tao lang din ang bumuo ng kultura, lipunan at relihiyon, hindi sila ang humubog sa tao. Kaya mas wasto tlga tawagin "a priori" dahil ung kaalaman ito nung mga nauna sa atin.

 

[stellarium]

Pasensya na sa wording kung hindi ganun ka accurate.

Pero nalito ako sa sinabi mo. Kung "a priori" knowledge din ang huhubog, ano pang parte ng moralidad ang masasabi nating hardwired?

Saka prang baliktad din kasi. Ang kultura, lipunan at relihiyon ay produkto ng kung ano na moralidad ang meron ang isang grupo ng mga tao. Nagkataon lng isinilang tayo sa kalagitnaan, pero sa umpisa, tao lang din ang bumuo ng kultura, lipunan at relihiyon, hindi sila ang humubog sa tao. Kaya mas wasto tlga tawagin "a priori" dahil ung kaalaman ito nung mga nauna sa atin.

wala ako sinabi na ang priori ng morality ay ang culture, society and religion, what i said is hindi lang ang dna ang basehan ng atheist sa source ng morality, at gaya naman ng sinabi ko sang ayon ako sa sinabi mo na for atheists morality is innate and hard wired in our brain and in our dna, ang di ako sang ayon ay masyado narrow ang pagkaka explain mo ng position ng atheism sa usapin ng moralidad.. what i mean hard wired: morality is already in our brains and it was shaped by outside forces -- cultures, society and religion. Walang baliktad dyan, my point is bago pa naubo ang kultura, relihiyon at lipunan likas na na may sense of morality ang bawat nilalang, it is neccessary for communal living of all creatures, but still in human species the cultures, religion and society is the defining factors kung papano hinuhubog, nag evolve ang moralidad na naka ukit na sa brains and dna ng isang tao.

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

likas na na may sense of morality ang bawat nilalang, it is neccessary for communal living of all creatures,

Dinidebunk ko nga yan sinasabi mong "likas" by saying it is "a priori".

Example, ung rule na bawal pumatay. It is not innate within us na bawal yan. Makikita naman natin na may mga tao na nag eenjoy sa pagpatay, although rare.

We can view it in a way na ung mga society na nabuo kung saan hindi nila pinapatay ang isa't-isa, sila ung nagfflourish. Ung mga grupo nmn na wala sakanila yang rule, nagcocollapse.

So we are a product of this natural selection of societies. We just write rules and create religions and culture to articulate the principles that brought us here, but we are not shaped by these, we shaped them, as an easy reference for the future.

 

[stellarium]

Dinidebunk ko nga yan sinasabi mong "likas" by saying it is "a priori".

Example, ung rule na bawal pumatay. It is not innate within us na bawal yan. Makikita naman natin na may mga tao na nag eenjoy sa pagpatay, although rare.

We can view it in a way na ung mga society na nabuo kung saan hindi nila pinapatay ang isa't-isa, sila ung nagfflourish. Ung mga grupo nmn na wala sakanila yang rule, nagcocollapse.

So we are a product of this natural selection of societies. We just write rules and create religions and culture to articulate the principles that brought us here, but we are not shaped by these, we shaped them, as an easy reference for the future.

nope. we just not write rules and creates cultures and religion out of thin air, our morality our ability to tell the right and wrong, emphaty, sense of fairness, ability to judge orthers, are some of the building blocks of morality that can be observed in infancy and has passed through the course of evolution, bago pa bumuo ang o naka buo ang human species ng mga sinaunang lipunan, relihiyon at cultures nagawa nila yan dahil sa likas moralidad na naka ukit sa kanilang brains and dna. Morality passed down through evolutions in turn cultures, society and religion was created which shaped our moral behaviour that is the reason why our moral behavior are varies from culture to culture.

at wag mo sinasabi dine debunk dyan kasi madalas nagkaka initan mga tao dito kapag sinabi mo dinedebunk, na debunked mo ang argumento ng kausap mo..
we are not debating here nag bibigay lang tayo ng kanya kanyang kuro kuro at opinyon umay na kasi ko sa ganyang bagay, ilang beses na ko suspendito dito sa forum dahil sa pakikipag argumentations and debate, kaya kapag nararamdaman ko mauuwi sa heated debate and argumentations ang usapan after ko maibigay ang insight and opinion ko hindi nako nag rereply at baka ma limit or ma guhitan na naman tong account ko

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

nope. we just not write rules and creates cultures and religion out of thin air, our morality our ability to tell the right and wrong, emphaty, sense of fairness, ability to judge orthers, are some of the building blocks of morality that can be observed in infancy and has passed through the course of evolution, bago pa bumuo ang o naka buo ang human species ng mga sinaunang lipunan, relihiyon at cultures nagawa nila yan dahil sa likas moralidad na naka ukit sa kanilang brains and dna. Morality passed down through evolutions in turn cultures, society and religion was created which shaped our moral behaviour that is the reason why our moral behavior are varies from culture to culture.

Nakita nmn natin ang epekto ng flawed na paniniwala na yan thru nazi socialism, saka iba't ibang bersyon ng communism, which are more or less produkto ng misreading ng philosophy ni Neitzche. They are mostly from the presuppositions na ang morality ay built in sa atin. Kaya may tendency ang mga followers ni Neitzche mag reject ng ancient religions and philosophies. At ang motivation png nmn din ay dahil sa rejection ng mga dogmatic beliefs, pero msyado din na-generalized sa lahat ng religions, at nawala na ang nuances ng ibang explanations. "Throwing the baby out with the bathwater", if you will.

at wag mo sinasabi dine debunk dyan kasi madalas nagkaka initan mga tao dito kapag sinabi mo dinedebunk, na debunked mo ang argumento ng kausap mo..
we are not debating here nag bibigay lang tayo ng kanya kanyang kuro kuro at opinyon umay na kasi ko sa ganyang bagay

I get it. Masyado kasi attached sa mga opinion at belief ang mga Filipino, kaya madalas mauwi sa dysfunctional conversations ang debate.

Okay, i won't fault you for not replying any further.

 

[jayendecastro]

nope. we just not write rules and creates cultures and religion out of thin air, our morality our ability to tell the right and wrong, emphaty, sense of fairness, ability to judge orthers, are some of the building blocks of morality that can be observed in infancy and has passed through the course of evolution, bago pa bumuo ang o naka buo ang human species ng mga sinaunang lipunan, relihiyon at cultures nagawa nila yan dahil sa likas moralidad na naka ukit sa kanilang brains and dna. Morality passed down through evolutions in turn cultures, society and religion was created which shaped our moral behaviour that is the reason why our moral behavior are varies from culture to culture.

at wag mo sinasabi dine debunk dyan kasi madalas nagkaka initan mga tao dito kapag sinabi mo dinedebunk, na debunked mo ang argumento ng kausap mo..
we are not debating here nag bibigay lang tayo ng kanya kanyang kuro kuro at opinyon umay na kasi ko sa ganyang bagay, ilang beses na ko suspendito dito sa forum dahil sa pakikipag argumentations and debate, kaya kapag nararamdaman ko mauuwi sa heated debate and argumentations ang usapan after ko maibigay ang insight and opinion ko hindi nako nag rereply at baka ma limit or ma guhitan na naman tong account ko

How can you observe the building blocks u mentioned sa isang infant??

I really cant see how morality is innate sa humans…