🕯️ Traditions Apostle Peter is Not the one Build the Church of God.

[Silent07]

Where did God Build His Church?
MATTHEW 16:18 (KJV)
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (Petros), and upon this rock (petra) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Peter(Petros) -
Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros ("small stone") then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra ("cliff, boulder," Abbott-Smith).

Rock(Petra) - A rock
4073 pétra (a feminine noun) – "a mass of connected rock," which is distinct from 4074 (Pétros) which is "a detached stone or boulder" (A-S). 4073 (pétra) is a "solid or native rock, rising up through the earth" (Souter) – a huge mass of rock (a boulder), such as a projecting cliff.

4073 (petra) is "a projecting rock, cliff (feminine noun) . . . 4074 (petros, the masculine form) however is a stone . . . such as a man might throw" (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

Who is The Rock Where did God Build upon it?
I CORINTHIANS 10:4 (KJV)
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock (Petra) was Christ.

Another symbolizes Christ according to the bible is Chief Cornerstone where the Household of God was founded with the small stones which are the apostles and phrophets. Chief Cornerstone In Greek is Akrogōniaiou which means
chief corner, capstone

The Rock mentioned in Matthew 16:18 is Christ where the Church was built.
Peter or the apostles are small stones of the foundation

The speaker in Matthew 16:18 was Christ. So who built the Church?
Christ said, in JOHN 12:50 (KJV)
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

The Father who said what Christ spoke. Therefore, The God The Father who Built the Church.

In fact, the bible said in HEBREWS 3:4 (KJV)
For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

What House did God Build?
I TIMOTHY 3:15 (KJV)
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Church of God
Acts 20:28
1 Corinthians 1:2
1 Corinthians 10:32
1 Corinthians 11:16
1 Corinthians 11:22
1 Corinthians 15:9
Galatians 1:13
1 Thessalonians 2:14
2 Thessalonians 1:4
1 Timothy 3:5
1 Timothy 3:15

 

[Gudguding Aso]

Church of God
Ni Soriano ba? O ni Perez?

 

[Silent07]

Church of God
Ni Soriano ba? O ni Perez?

It doesn't matter.
What matters is what is in the Bible.

 

[plhbg1]

so peter isn't the rock being referred to in that verse?

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

so peter isn't the rock being referred to in that verse?

Namimilosopo lang sya kasi daw rocks do not build themselves. Kailangan may builder.

I do not see why this discussion is necessary.

 

[ri_aus]

Jesus being the cornerstone and Peter as the rock(of what purpose?).

Do you have some knowledge about construction? Any idea about masonry works? I think Jesus knows since He was a carpenter.
Masonry, the art and craft of building and fabricating in stone, clay, brick, or concrete block.
here we use multiple stone of different purpose (same for us people of the church, we are also considered stones but of what purpose? we sing, read, greet or do apostolate works).

1 Peter 2:7 states, "So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,"

What is a cornerstone?

There are 3 main parts of a building
Here's a breakdown of each part:

• Substructure (or Foundation):
  This is the lowest part of the building, situated below ground level. Its primary function is to transfer the building's load to the soil.
• Plinth:
• Superstructure:

A cornerstone (or foundation stone or setting stone) is the first stone set in the construction of a You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now.. All other stones will be set in reference to this stone, thus determining the position of the entire You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now..

We agree Jesus is the cornerstone, the foundation. In todays term the footing. The one who holds the weight of all the other stones, the whole building.

So what rock/stone is Peter?

MATTHEW 16:18 (KJV)
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (Petros), and upon this rock (petra) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

In construction we use this term as foundation bed.

A foundation bed in construction is the stable, prepared ground upon which a building's foundation is constructed. It's the layer beneath the footing or foundation that provides support and distributes the building's weight to the soil.

What is the purpose of the foundation bed?

Matthew 7:24–27 (ESV): ​

“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”​

Here we can clearly see a rock as the foundation bed is where the wise builder would build.

Digging deeper into this parable we have seen that the Word we hear are the same, the House we built looks the same. But if the House is built on the sand it will be washed away. The House may still appear intact after the storm but is far from where it is built. Same can be said with the word. We say the same verse but we have different interpretations. The house on the sands are wrong interpretations, the words being washed away. The Church, the House where we hear the Word(Jesus is also the Word), is it built upon the rock?

Jesus is a carpenter. He is a wise builder.

 

[Silent07]

so peter isn't the rock being referred to in that verse?

Yes. That's what is Written in The Original Greek. Upon this Petra, not Petros.

Namimilosopo lang sya kasi daw rocks do not build themselves. Kailangan may builder.

I do not see why this discussion is necessary.

Read carefully before saying anything.

Jesus being the cornerstone and Peter as the rock(of what purpose?).

Do you have some knowledge about construction? Any idea about masonry works? I think Jesus knows since He was a carpenter.
Masonry, the art and craft of building and fabricating in stone, clay, brick, or concrete block.
here we use multiple stone of different purpose (same for us people of the church, we are also considered stones but of what purpose? we sing, read, greet or do apostolate works).

1 Peter 2:7 states, "So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,"

What is a cornerstone?

There are 3 main parts of a building
Here's a breakdown of each part:

• Substructure (or Foundation):
  This is the lowest part of the building, situated below ground level. Its primary function is to transfer the building's load to the soil.
• Plinth:
• Superstructure:

A cornerstone (or foundation stone or setting stone) is the first stone set in the construction of a You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now.. All other stones will be set in reference to this stone, thus determining the position of the entire You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now..

We agree Jesus is the cornerstone, the foundation. In todays term the footing. The one who holds the weight of all the other stones, the whole building.

So what rock/stone is Peter?

MATTHEW 16:18 (KJV)
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (Petros), and upon this rock (petra) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

In construction we use this term as foundation bed.

A foundation bed in construction is the stable, prepared ground upon which a building's foundation is constructed. It's the layer beneath the footing or foundation that provides support and distributes the building's weight to the soil.

What is the purpose of the foundation bed?

Matthew 7:24–27 (ESV): ​

“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”​

Here we can clearly see a rock as the foundation bed is where the wise builder would build.

Digging deeper into this parable we have seen that the Word we hear are the same, the House we built looks the same. But if the House is built on the sand it will be washed away. The House may still appear intact after the storm but is far from where it is built. Same can be said with the word. We say the same verse but we have different interpretations. The house on the sands are wrong interpretations, the words being washed away. The Church, the House where we hear the Word(Jesus is also the Word), is it built upon the rock?

Jesus is a carpenter. He is a wise builder.

There's no debate on that.
Read carefully. I didn't say that the apostles are not part of the Church's construction.
did I said that Christ is not the Word?
The apostles are part of the Body which is The Church, and Christ is The Head of the Church.
The same, apostles and members, etc. are built Upon the Petra which is Christ.
The only topic is Where the Church is built and Who built it.
I just didn't elaborate the purpose, so how can you say that we have different interpretation if I didn't mention it?

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Read carefully before saying anything.

Wala kraptan magcomment unless mag agree ako sa post?

 

[Silent07]

Wala kraptan magcomment unless mag agree ako sa post?

Di naman sa Ganon. Saan lang Yung sinasabi mong pamimilosopo sa sinabi ko?
Totoo naman na kamanggagawa rin ng Dios ang mga Cristiano, pero ang pangunahing gumagawa ng lahat ay ang Dios. Kaya sa Dios ang Credit.

I Mga Taga-Corinto 3:9 TLAB
Sapagka't tayo ay mga kamanggagawa ng Dios: kayo ang bukid ng Dios, ang gusali ng Dios.

Filipos 2:13
Sapagka't Dios ang gumagawa sa inyo maging sa pagnanasa at sa paggawa, ayon sa kaniyang mabuting kalooban.

HEBREWS 3:4 (KJV)
For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

We are co-workers but God who does the works in us.

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Di naman sa Ganon. Saan lang Yung sinasabi mong pamimilosopo sa sinabi ko?
Totoo naman na kamanggagawa rin ng Dios ang mga Cristiano, pero ang pangunahing gumagawa ng lahat ay ang Dios. Kaya sa Dios ang Credit.

I Mga Taga-Corinto 3:9 TLAB
Sapagka't tayo ay mga kamanggagawa ng Dios: kayo ang bukid ng Dios, ang gusali ng Dios.

Filipos 2:13
Sapagka't Dios ang gumagawa sa inyo maging sa pagnanasa at sa paggawa, ayon sa kaniyang mabuting kalooban.

HEBREWS 3:4 (KJV)
For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

We are co-workers but God who does the works in us.

I suggest you try to understand the meaning of "pamimilosopo" bago ka mag react.

Hindi naman yan naman tlga ginagawa ng post na ito?

 

[Silent07]

I suggest you try to understand the meaning of "pamimilosopo" bago ka mag react.

Hindi naman yan naman tlga ginagawa ng post na ito?

Saan mo nakuha ito?

Namimilosopo lang sya kasi daw rocks do not build themselves. Kailangan may builder.

I do not see why this discussion is necessary.

May sinabi ba akong kapilosopohang ganiyang salita? Paki quote or screenshot nga. No edit.

 

[Asherah Goddess]

Umaapaw ang ating knowledge. Then I remembered, ang nagbigay ng knowledge ay walang iba kungdi si Satanas na nagkatawan ahas at iyon ay the fruit of knowledge from tree of knowledge. Oha? Ang dami natin alam kung ano ang tama at mali. Hehehe

Meron nga nagsabi na ang ating faith ay nakasalalay kung kagaano kalawak ang ating knowledge.​

Ahem. Knowledge na naman.

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Saan mo nakuha ito?

May sinabi ba akong kapilosopohang ganiyang salita? Paki quote or screenshot nga. No edit.

First, it is a reference to Jesus being a carpenter.

Magkaiba ung wala kang nakita ganyan depenisyon sa ayaw mo hanapin. Lubhang mas madali magsearch sa google kaysa basahin ung mahaba mong post na hindi ko parin makita kabuluhan.

 

[Silent07]

First, it is a reference to Jesus being a carpenter.

Magkaiba ung wala kang nakita ganyan depenisyon sa ayaw mo hanapin. Lubhang mas madali magsearch sa google kaysa basahin ung mahaba mong post na hindi ko parin makita kabuluhan.

View attachment 3804711

Pero saan ko sinabi na Rocks don't build themselves na sinabi mong sinabi ko? Yun Yung tinutukoy mong pamimilosopo eh.

Wala pa naman akong sinasabing Ganon.

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Pero saan ko sinabi na Rocks don't build themselves na sinabi mong sinabi ko? Yun Yung tinutukoy mong pamimilosopo eh.

Wala pa naman akong sinasabing Ganon.

It is a shortened summary based in the title and your conclusion:

Therefore, The God The Father who Built the Church.
In fact, the bible said in HEBREWS 3:4 (KJV)
For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

(Honestly, i am now wondering if you read your own post)

I have already raised a few times questioning kung necessary ba itong topic ng thread. Parang un ung mas mahalagang i address mo boss?

 

[Silent07]

It is a shortened summary based in the title and your conclusion:

(Honestly, i am now wondering if you read your own post)

I have already raised a few times questioning kung necessary ba itong topic ng thread. Parang un ung mas mahalagang i address mo boss?

Hindi naman nga kako Rock si Peter. So nasaan doon Yung sinabi ko na Rocks don't build themselves?

Si Cristo nga Yung Rock eh,
Ang ginagawa ng Dios Ama, Siya ring Ginagawa ni Cristo (Rock).
Pero Ang main builder ay Ang Dios Ama.

It's a necessary topic. Kasi may Religion na Ang paniniwala at ipinapangaral ay si Peter daw Ang nagtatag ng Church... Di ko na lang babanggitin kung anong Religion.

Ang topic na ito ay para ipakita kung ano ba talaga Ang totoo ayon sa bible. Totoo ba na si Peter Ang nagtayo ng Church, gaya ng ipinapangaral ng maling Religion?

Hindi iyan maiisulat sa biblia, if it's unnecessary.

 

[ri_aus]

Hindi naman nga kako Rock si Peter. So nasaan doon Yung sinabi ko na Rocks don't build themselves?

Si Cristo nga Yung Rock eh,
Ang ginagawa ng Dios Ama, Siya ring Ginagawa ni Cristo (Rock).
Pero Ang main builder ay Ang Dios Ama.

It's a necessary topic. Kasi may Religion na Ang paniniwala at ipinapangaral ay si Peter daw Ang nagtatag ng Church... Di ko na lang babanggitin kung anong Religion.

Ang topic na ito ay para ipakita kung ano ba talaga Ang totoo ayon sa bible. Totoo ba na si Peter Ang nagtayo ng Church, gaya ng ipinapangaral ng maling Religion?

Hindi iyan maiisulat sa biblia, if it's unnecessary.

MATTHEW 16:18 (KJV)
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (Petros), and upon this rock (petra) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Ano po ba religion nagsabi na si Peter nagtayo?

Correct me if i am wrong Jesus speaks here. When He says "I will be build my church..."
Who built it?
Answer-Jesus(since we believe in one God, no argument with God the Father building it).

The remaining topic na lang siguro is where is it built.

"...and upon this rock (petra) I will build my church"
-Jesus built the church on top of a rock.
-Petro being small stone, sa mga bahay ngayon maliliit lang din na bato nilalagay namin bago buhusan footing, ewan ko lang during their time.

Rock as a cornerstone po is different sa Rock as a foundation bed. So kung nabanggit na si Jesus ang cornerstone hindi po yun same sa rock na nasabi dyan sa Matthew 16:18.

Eto sariling pananaw ko na lang. Since nasa construction side ako, medyo hinanapan ko ng deeper meaning ang parable of the wise builder nasa Matthew din naman din yun. Dito sa lupa kay peter na muna iniwan ni Jesus ang simbahan tinayo nya para di mawala sa lokasyon (the house being carried away by flood, the word being misinterpreted).

 

[plhbg1]

ako naman bossing iba rin interpretation ko diyan sa "petras" pero mag disclaimer muna ako na atheist ako at ang interpretation ko is based on logic lang sa pagkasulat ng book, if titingnan mo kasi yung mga katabing verses may sinabi si Peter diyan na "You are the Messaiah, the Son of the living God" so since Petra is bigger than Petros, the logic would be that Petras is something that is bigger than Peter, and since the articulation of Peter about the Diety of Christ precedes this debatable verse eh i think the Ultimate Truth that Peter just articulated is the one that is being referred to as the bigger rock because obviously the Truth (Diety of Christ) is definitely bigger than Peter as a Rock, so the church is built upon this Truth (referring to Peter's articulation of divinity of Christ)

 

[ri_aus]

ako naman bossing iba rin interpretation ko diyan sa "petras" pero mag disclaimer muna ako na atheist ako at ang interpretation ko is based on logic lang sa pagkasulat ng book, if titingnan mo kasi yung mga katabing verses may sinabi si Peter diyan na "You are the Messaiah, the Son of the living God" so since Petra is bigger than Petros, the logic would be that Petras is something that is bigger than Peter, and since the articulation of Peter about the Diety of Christ precedes this debatable verse eh i think the Ultimate Truth that Peter just articulated is the one that is being referred to as the bigger rock because obviously the Truth (Diety of Christ) is definitely bigger than Peter as a Rock, so the church is built upon this Truth (referring to Peter's articulation of divinity of Christ)

Looking at it the root of it is the contrast of 2 greek words, petras and petros. Since dito naman makikita ang logic ng bigger rock compared to the stone . But we can go back directly to aramaic, yung mismong gamit nila on the time of Jesus.
Peter. Peter's name in aramaic is preserved and it is Kephas, which means rock so walang contrast. Naging Petros lang naman yan dahil di pwede gamitin petra sa lalaki nung natranslate aramaic papunta greek.

Tingin ko may play of word bakit yan pinalit sa pangalan nya.
Caiaphas-which also means rock, is the high priest of the old covenant. Dito naman inappoint na si Kephas para maglead sa church na itatayo ni Jesus.

 

[plhbg1]

Looking at it the root of it is the contrast of 2 greek words, petras and petros. Since dito naman makikita ang logic ng bigger rock compared to the stone . But we can go back directly to aramaic, yung mismong gamit nila on the time of Jesus.
Peter. Peter's name in aramaic is preserved and it is Kephas, which means rock so walang contrast. Naging Petros lang naman yan dahil di pwede gamitin petra sa lalaki nung natranslate aramaic papunta greek.

Tingin ko may play of word bakit yan pinalit sa pangalan nya.
Caiaphas-which also means rock, is the high priest of the old covenant. Dito naman inappoint na si Kephas para maglead sa church na itatayo ni Jesus.

but we should make it clear that the character of Jesus is different from the one who wrote the book, so let us make clear first, are we debating as to what the bible says? or are we debating as to what the character of Jesus says? because we only have the book so yung may empirical document lang is the writer of the bible, walang empirical document for the character of Jesus speaking or his actual speech, so what you just did is to find a weakness of a language especially the capacity of the language to E×ρréšš gender, obvious naman na walang equivalent word sa aramaic ang petras so you exploited that language weakness to eliminate the contrast, and eliminating the contrast is an over simplification of the issue