🔒 Closed What if Gnosticism was the Orthodox?

[Kaplok Kaplok]

This article may have a lot of misunderstandings, since I am not a historian or a theologist, neither I am in a profession that can properly present these information accurately. I will try to include wikipedia links so you, the reader, can also make you own research on the subject. This may have presentations of informations that are affected by my biases, so please read with full discretion.

During the 1st to 2nd century, roughly the 100yrs after the "Jesus Event", there were several christian movements that formed apart from the proto-orthodox christianity that we know of today. One of the major proponents were the gnostics, who call themselves Valentinians.

You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. and heresy does not have as negative connotations like after the orthodox has been established. They can be viewed as alternative schools of thought or theological philosophies that could have been THE orthodox on studying the Bible.

Irenaeus
You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. best known work, Adversus Haereses, which is credited to prevent the spread of Gnosticism, laid the groundwork for the orthodox christian beliefs. His canonization cemented the beleif that gnosticm and heresies are "against" christianity.
I will describe his theology in a oversimplified manner. I am aware that it will not ring true to all christians, you will find out that the minor details has nothing against the contrast to the gnostic counterpart.

Ireneus theology goes like this. God created the world with Adam and Eve. They commit the original sin. God planned orchestrated all events towards the birth of Jesus. Mary and Jesus are essentially the second Adam and Eve, but this time, the redemption from sin.

Valentinus
You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. was one of the major proponents against the orthodox teachings. So much so, that You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. is almost synonymous to gnosticism. But gnosticism is just as branched and reinterpreted the same way the orthodoxy is.
It is claimed that he wrote most, if not all, of the books discovered in Egypt in You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now..
Here is a summary, and oversimplified description of the myth.

First there is a You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now., which is a diety whom is a dyad(male and female). Then this godhead emanates itself into several Aeons(spheres of being) on of which it emanates is the female and male pair You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. and Theletos(Wisdom and Willed).


Sophia (wisdom) attempted to emulate the Bythos, without its partner Theletos. And what it created was a misshapen flawed being, the You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now. (or You do not have permission to view the full content of this post. Log in or register now.). Due to this deed, Sophia was exiled and split into two, higher wisdom and lower wisdom, the higher stayed in the original Pleroma, and the lower thrown into the creations. The lower wisdom became anologous to the human soul.

The Demiurge has no knowledge of the beings before it, and it believes that it is the creator himself. He then creates the world, our reality, making him the God of the Old Testament, evil, prideful, jealous and possessive, trapping humans' souls in this reality. Some believe that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was actually an emissary sent by Sophia or the Bythos to help mankind find its way back. Then later on Sophia sent the Christ, her son for the salvation part of the myth. Some also believe that Judas was the only apostle who knows the true nature of the Christ, and the rest are blinded by the reality made for them by the Demiurge.

What if Gnosticism was the Orthodox?
Pros
-Gender equality will be common.
-We can reconcile the implication of the bible that "knowledge" is bad
-We can reconcile the difference in personality between the Old Testament God and New Testament God.
-Sêx will not be viewed as a sin, Virgīn Mary will not even be necessary to put emphasis on and therefore not the ideal female figure. It will be Sophia instead.


Cons
-the theology is too complex, specially for converts from pagan beliefs
-everything in the old testament might be deemed wrong, in cluding "The Ten Commandments", and has a possibility to be redacted.
-Inconsistency on the fact that Judas is seen as a hero. If so, why bother including the writings of the other apostles on the Bible?
-while the effect would be unknown, it turns the morality of the orthodoxy upside down, so who knows would would be the morals of this beliefs.

What else can you think of?

Thank you for reading

 

[mutagenesisx]

Masasabi ko lang maganda pakinggan mga orthodox hymns specially yung mga basso profundo. thanks sa meme culture na diskobre ko yung genre nang music na ito.

dati subrang hilig ko sa theology, bigla ako na boring nung na discover ko yung mga katulad ni Graham Hancock thanks sa podcast ni Joe Rogan. haha

 

[stellarium]

what sect? there are hundred sects within gnosticism.. at karamihan ascentic at sobrang hate ang kanilang mortal flesh at kanilang existence, para sa kanila ang physical body ay filthy, immoral, isang sumpa mula sa demiurge na si Jehovah, ang iba ay extremists gaya ng Borborites they practice sexual sacramentalism and s3x magic -- meaning lumalamon sila ng menstrual blood as holy eucharist very disgusting diba.. at kung kulang pa yan sapilitan nilang nilalag ang mga aksidenteng nabubuntis sa kanilang sexual rites dahil halos lahat ng gnostic sects pinagbabawal at abomination ang procreation.

Just imagine kung ang naging Orthodoxy sa christian church ay tulad ng Borborites, papayag ka ba na isalang ang ina at kapatid mo babae sa s3x magic and eucharist nila? and handa kaba uminom ng regla at semen? hmm

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

what sect? there are hundred sects within gnosticism.. at karamihan ascentic at sobrang hate ang kanilang mortal flesh at kanilang existence, para sa kanila ang physical body ay filthy, immoral, isang sumpa mula sa demiurge na si Jehovah, ang iba ay extremists gaya ng Borborites they practice sexual sacramentalism and s3x magic -- meaning lumalamon sila ng menstrual blood as holy eucharist very disgusting diba.. at kung kulang pa yan sapilitan nilang nilalag ang mga aksidenteng nabubuntis sa kanilang sexual rites dahil halos lahat ng gnostic sects pinagbabawal at abomination ang procreation.

Just imagine kung ang naging Orthodoxy sa christian church ay tulad ng Borborites, papayag ka ba na isalang ang ina at kapatid mo babae sa s3x magic and eucharist nila? and handa kaba uminom ng regla at semen? hmm

Kaya hindi din nmn ako nag focus sa mga practices ng mga sects at nag stick lang ako sa core myth nila.

Kahit nmn current orthodox ppwede umabot sa point ng extremism gaya ng mga practices na shinare mo, which i'm sure you know.

Kahit mga modern ideologies like marxism, capitalism, environmentalism etc, ppwede din maging exteremist. Kung iisipin, science extremist naman si Hitler.

So hindi nmn yata tama na isama sa comparison yung extremes, kasi it does not represent the totality.


Anyway, yung hate sa flesh and existence also adds to the "cons" ng gnosticism, especially if extreme. That is a good point.

 

[stellarium]

Kaya hindi din nmn ako nag focus sa mga practices ng mga sects at nag stick lang ako sa core myth nila.

Kahit nmn current orthodox ppwede umabot sa point ng extremism gaya ng mga practices na shinare mo, which i'm sure you know.

Kahit mga modern ideologies like marxism, capitalism, environmentalism etc, ppwede din maging exteremist. Kung iisipin, science extremist naman si Hitler.

So hindi nmn yata tama na isama sa comparison yung extremes, kasi it does not represent the totality.


Anyway, yung hate sa flesh and existence also adds to the "cons" ng gnosticism, especially if extreme. That is a good point.

i dont think na science extremist si Hitler, he is ultra nationalist and racist, he twisted the philosophy of Nietszche to fit in their own version Arianism, ang Nazism ay syncretic ng Ariosophy, Theosophy at occult traditions ng germany, mga bagay na very far sa rationality ng science.

Pero siguro kung meron deserve sa mga sekta ng gnostic na maging Orthodox ay Marcionism, hindi kasi sila ganong ka extremist at nasa kanila ang credit as the first christian sect na nag compile ng mga aklat ng bibliya as one unified canon book, kaya ang Bible canon na meron tayo ngayon ay idea na nakuha, napulot at ginamit ng Early Christian church kay Marcion na founder ng marcionism, kung hindi dahil sa kanila wala tayong Canonical Bible na gamit ng lahat ng mga sekta (with the exemption of Mormones) ng Kristyanismo ngayon.

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

i dont think na science extremist si Hitler, he is ultra nationalist and racist, he twisted the philosophy of Nietszche to fit in their own version Arianism, ang Nazism ay syncretic ng Ariosophy, Theosophy at occult traditions ng germany, mga bagay na very far sa rationality ng science.

I am referring to Darwinism being in the background of his racism and nationalism. Darwinist ideas provided support for his "Racial Science"/eugenics. Of course madali natin sabihing "pseudoscience" lang ito.. the same way na tatawagin ng mainstream religion na "kulto" ang mga extremist.

Pero siguro kung meron deserve sa mga sekta ng gnostic na maging Orthodox ay Marcionism, hindi kasi sila ganong ka extremist at nasa kanila ang credit as the first christian sect na nag compile ng mga aklat ng bibliya as one unified canon book, kaya ang Bible canon na meron tayo ngayon ay idea na nakuha, napulot at ginamit ng Early Christian church kay Marcion na founder ng marcionism, kung hindi dahil sa kanila wala tayong Canonical Bible na gamit ng lahat ng mga sekta (with the exemption of Mormones) ng Kristyanismo ngayon.

Parang ung turo nya mas in line sa orthodox, kesa sa mga gnostic pala. Wala siyang demiurge.

 

[stellarium]

I am referring to Darwinism being in the background of his racism and nationalism. Darwinist ideas provided support for his "Racial Science"/eugenics. Of course madali natin sabihing "pseudoscience" lang ito.. the same way na tatawagin ng mainstream religion na "kulto" ang mga extremist.

syempre naman social darwinism today ay widely accepted as pseudoscience, dahil sang ayon sa modern research and studies, evolution and society does not work that way na only the strong lives matter, the human society operates within the framework of competition and cooperation, at sa ating modernong panahon wala ng lugar ang scientific racism at eugenics, tinuturing na yan bilang mga pseudoscience and fringe theory, all lives matters (hindi lang black lives matter na lagi sigaw ng mga african american)

Parang ung turo nya mas in line sa orthodox, kesa sa mga gnostic pala. Wala siyang demiurge.

ano pala ang belief/religion mo? curious lang.. dito kasi sa phc may mga naniniwala sa ghosts and supernatural pero bihira ako maka encounter ng mga may interest sa gnosticism, occultism, and new age spirituality.

 

[Asherah Goddess]

Na eevolve kase ang perception natin. Inocent kung baga. Siyempre beliefs ng panahon noon o if ever lang naman na idinala sa present moment ang dating beliefs , ganun. Meron itinatawag na spiritual evolution. Lahat ng bagay sa mundo ay na e-evolve pati nga moral natin kung ano ang mabuti at masama ay nagbabago din e. Hindi siya fix kung baga.

Halimbawa. Meron sacrificing of human flesh o meron umiinom ng "menstrual blood" for holy eucharist o meron itinatawag na seks magic at maraming , maraming iba pa na tipong iba ang ikinamulatan na "moral" na ikinagisnan ng tao kung kaya , well , hindi sila nandidiri. Of course , sa part natin na based on our perception , nakaka-diri siya. Maaari kase na meron explaination behind sa ganoon ginagawa na maaaring hindi natin alam.

Katulad sa atin. Ang atin is the "body of christ" ang hostia na ikinakain natin as a Christian. Yung hostia na sacramental bread. Ewan ko kung saan ko nabasa iyon. Deep inside ay medio natatawa ako ng kaunti nang sinabi niya na keyso nakakadiri raw ang ipinagkakain ng Christian dahil keyso bakit raw kinakain natin ang "body of Christ" kuno. Ganun.

Siyempre , sa part natin ay hindi nakakadiri. But sa kanila ay nakakadiri. Same lang siya sa mga weird na ipinaggagawa nila na drinking of menstrual blood as a holy eucharist then , meron pang seks magic at maraming , maraming iba pa.

Hindi kase fix ang perception ng tao. Nagbabago-bago din siya kahit ang morality ng tao na kung ano ang mabuti at masama ay nagbabago din pagdating ng panahon. Hindi siya fix.

Like for example sa Japan anime ng 80's , 90's and 2000's. Ang mga otaku fan ng Japan anime na taga 80's ay poging-pogi sila o gandang-ganda sila sa Japan anime style sa panahon nila. Meron na silang crushes niyan. Fictional crushes in some Japan anime series. Hindi naman fix ang anime style. Nagbabago din. Iba na ang Japan anime style sa 90's and 2000's. Yung human brain natin ay malamang na magcha-change iyan ng perception about Japan anime style which is itong Japan anime style ng 2000's ay mas pogi o mas maganda na ang mga fictional character natin sa ngayon na in fact , mukha totoong tao na ang itsura katulad ng mga 3d Japan anime. Hindi na gwapo o hindi na maganda sa perception natin ang Japan anime style ng 80's and 90's.

Ganun din sa Japan anime style ng 90's na para sa kanila na mas pogi o mas maganda ang mga fictional character nito kaysa sa 80's ng Japan anime.

Hindi siya fix. Nagbabago siya.

Ganun.
​

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

ano pala ang belief/religion mo? curious lang.. dito kasi sa phc may mga naniniwala sa ghosts and supernatural pero bihira ako maka encounter ng mga may interest sa gnosticism, occultism, and new age spirituality.

Atheist ako. I only treat religion as philosophies, which IMO, they have higher value like that. Merong point na naniwala ako sa twisted version ng Nihilism, and I know it is a dark place. Kaya I support having religion in the society as long as it does not turn into fundamentalism. One way to do that is boil them down into philosophies. Historically yan nmn tlga sila.
Isa pa meron tlga akong interest with anything psychological, including beliefs, love and culture.